Buddhism and Vegetarianism

[deva]

Greetings, All,

I see so many "Buddhists" who ignore "ahimsa" and promote animal slaughter. What is the most concise way to defeat this mentality with philosophical and historical facts?

deva

[Tulasi Devi]

Greetings Deva,

Since Buddhists claim to follow Dharma, they should follow Sanatana Dharma like the Buddha himself did.

It is hard to discuss a soul-based argument for vegetarianism with most Buddhists since they no longer believe in the existence of the soul. Their spiritual leader, the Dalia Lama, eats meat because he said his doctor ordered it.

If Buddhists did follow Sanatana Dharma I would give them this quote (along with others on non-violence) from the most important book in Sanatana Dharma:

In the Bhagavad-gita (5.18) Krishna explains that spiritual perfection begins when one can see the equality of all living beings, "The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana (a priest), a cow, an elephant, a dog, and an outcast."

I hope this helps to some extent.

-Tulasi

[dharmananda]

I would look at the question from several different aspects.


One, if you look at ahimsa as it relates to the physical world. I think a universal statement would be that violence begets more violence. Very rarely is anything truly solved by violent means, usually it simply escalates the conflict to higher forms until tragedy is the eventual result in one form or another. Now of course there are always exceptions to this rule as in the case of self defense or defense of the innocent, however in that respect I would advocate the minimum amount of force needed to accomplish the goal.


Two, if you look at it from a psychological and philosophical perspective, negative thoughts and emotions have a tendency to produce more negative thoughts and emotions as well as actions to the same effect. This can have a profoundly detrimental effect on the human psyche. I'm sure there are volumes of studies on the power and effect of positive thought vs. negative thought in relation to the human condition, and I hope no one would argue that thinking angry and hurtful thoughts can be good for a person. So if you look at it from that perspective, then ahimsa in relation to our thoughts and emotions comes into play as well.


With the aspect of vegetarianism there is so much information on that subject I just decided to post it on another thread.


For the historical perspective I would look at famous figures that have displayed the qualities of ahimsa, then study the results of their actions. Krishna, Buddha, Jesus and Gandhi are four excellent examples. If you look at the lives that each of these men led I can say with total confidence that adherence to the code of ahimsa is a wonderful thing.


I found a great website on ahimsa that you would probably love, and be sure to check out my posting on vegetarianism as well.


http://www.jainworld.com/philosophy/ahimsa.asp




'The wise is one who searches for God,


the successful is one who finds Him.'


Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharyaji




Namaste

[Jai Mata Di]

I thank you for the jain article as I feel so much in common with jans in their lifestyles. I hate eating eggs but it keeps the family happy, otherwise I don't even touch them. as I mentioned elsewhere on the board, my family are all meat eaters and they have been harping onto me about eating fish, although my grandmother and an aunt do eat some veggie things with me. I just feel I can't be properly hindu as much as i like whilst I am here at home, but, money is the hampering to things as I have no job!

Perhaps on the ahimsa side of things, I am bordering on the Jain side of things and I followed Buddhist dharma and thought something was missing there so hence I have come to hinduism and been happy and contented, (apart from family and meat...urghhh the smell of meat make some wanna spew).

[Jai Mata Di]

By the way I eat no meat! I was suffering hormonely with it as I was VERY depressed and was suffering from PMT quite bad!.

I just feel that killing meat is violating the whole principles of hinduism/ buddhism and you really do feel a LOT cleaner in yourself and no bogged down with the bulk of meat.

[deva]

Greetings,
I just find it amusing, if not alarming, that the temporary non-violent ahimsa philosophy of Krsna's Buddha incarnation as embodied by a brown renunciate Indian prince was transformed over time into an obese Oriental guy serving as the guru of millions of present day meat eaters. Welcome to kali yuga.

deva

[Jai Mata Di]

Buddhists are encouraged to give up meat as well, I did.

I think it maybe similar to Ganeshji's tummy being wisdom, Buddha is wisdom

[Arjuna]

Authentic Buddhism is a monaker open to wide and subjective interpretation and indeed it has been interpreted in a number of ways. I did find some interesting facts regarding vegetarianism and Buddhist principals as they relate to the Buddha himself.

"The Theravada Pali Canon records instances of Buddha eating meat which were specifically purchased for Buddha. This act was deliberately performed by the Buddha to demonstrate that if need be, a Buddhist can bend the rules in times of emergency or inconvenience. Obstinately observing vegetarianism or Buddhist rules in times when you cannot, conflicts with Mahayana philosophy because obstinacy or attachment for anything, is considered to be 'stubbornness' (执著 zhizhuo) which will become an obstacle to nirvana or enlightenment. However even then, if one undertakes a vow to be a Buddhist vegetarian, one is expected to follow this vow until it is humanly impossible to continue one's vegetarian diet."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cuisine

Followers of Sanatana Dharma should defend against employing the principal of Ahimsa to assuage spiritual tolerance for any person or group. The Buddhist who eats meat is accruing negative Kharma for themselves and this then becomes an intimate spiritual matter for that Atman to work out over time.

Namaste,
Arjuna

[River of Karma]

Hi Folks,
This is a very interesting. I would like to add if I may - I once read a buddhist FAQ book I came across on Wesak Day that answered about being vegetarian that Buddha himself was not a vegetarian, so its not a compulsion. (to the best of my memory)

I judge them not for it is their way. We have ours, they have theirs.

About Ahimsa, I blogged about it once. I think Swami Sri Yukteswar (of Autobiography of Yogi fame) said it best "Its about the removal of violence". My blog link is

http://driftings.blogspot.com/2007/0...just-word.html

Hope I dont get into any trouble for that.

Cheers,
RoK

[yeshesdevi]

"It is hard to discuss a soul-based argument for vegetarianism with most Buddhists since they no longer believe in the existence of the soul."

But to justify meat eating -- and the killing of animals that underlie it -- on the grounds of the Buddhist doctrine of non-self (anatman) is a very poor argument, to say the least. The absence of an intrinsically existent (not dependent on causes and conditions) self, which is the meaning of anatman, applies not only to animals, but to *all* beings, animate or inanimate, human beings included. Thus it would also mean that it would be ok to murder humans.

Obviously, any precept of not-killing and not-harming sentient beings would go right out the window, resulting in a nihilistic view. Buddhism seeks the 'middle way' between the conceptual extremes of eternalism on the one hand, and nihilism on the other hand. Eternalism means that there is an intrinsic self that is not dependent on conditions or causes, which Buddhists reject; yet at the same time, there are still sentient beings who suffer, can be harmed or harm others, and experience karma as a result. To deny that fact is to fall into the opposite extreme, which is nihilism. Embracing nihilism is actually, according to the Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna, the worse error. It is better that one should believe in an eternal soul and act accordingly in practice, even if it is ultimately a mistaken view. At least one's actions will be ethical and conducive to positive karmic results.

The main argument I have seen amongst Buddhists that meat-eating is justifiable stems from certain texts in which Shakyamuni Buddha allowed the monks to receive meat in their daily alms rounds. The monks were required to accept whatever food was offered to them, except for meat that they saw, heard or believed to have been killed on their behalf. If they saw, heard or believed the animal had been slaughtered for their specific use, they could reject the offering. Sometimes it is concluded from this precedent that it is ok to eat meat so long as it is not killed explicitly for us (e.g., meat stocked in the grocery store for 'general consumption').

However, this is a poor argument. We are not dependent on alms -- we purchase our own food. The monks in Buddha's time were forebade to choose what they ate. They were expected to be content with what was offered them. We on the other hand are free to choose -- and we have to use discernment. Our choice to purchase meat creates increasing demand which leads to the further slaughtering of animals, under increasingly inhumane conditions. So it makes us complicit in the suffering inflicted on animals (who, like us, are sentient beings) by the meat industry. By making different choices, on the other hand, we can to at least some small part help reduce demand and thus the suffering of other beings.

The Dalai Lama, BTW, advocates vegetarianism. That his physicians order him to eat meat some of the time is not his preference. His health is seen as important to the Tibetan people, and not just for himself, so I suspect he acquiesces to their orders. Yet, he also has said:

"Thousands - millions and billions - of animals are killed for food. This is very sad. We human beings can live without meat, especially in our modern world. We have a great variety of vegetables and other supplementary foods, so we have the capacity and the responsibility to save billions of lives. I have seen many individuals and groups promoting animal rights and following a vegetarian diet. This is excellent (...) I think that our basic human nature is vegetarian - making effort not to harm other living beings. If we apply intelligence, we can create a sound, nutritional program." (http://www.shabkar.org/teachers/tibe...dalai_lama.htm)

For many other useful resources regarding vegetarianism in Buddhism, take a look at the site the above quote is from, http://www.shabkar.org/index.htm as well.